»Neo: 100% Human, 100% Machine«

I'm a Christian, and as such I think I might be able to provide a few answers which I do not believe have yet been discussed.

The Matrix undoubtedly has many Christian parellels. Now before you go around shouting it's not a christian movie, I said "many", not "all". Anyhow, you probably have already heard that Neo is representive of a kind of Jesus figure. He rises from the dead, performs miracles, etc. He's the one that's going to "save the world".

Now I see on here many "is Neo 50% machine, 50% human" questions, and I find quite the parellel in this to the Christian belief of who Jesus was, and that is compleletly man and completely God at the same time.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only"
- John 1:14

Based on the close ties Neo has with the Jesus image, I believe it is quite possible the Wachowskis are setting it up that Neo is completely machine and completely human, all at the same time. It's a seriously hard concept to understand, and to be quite honest I have no clue how God could become entirely man and remain God, but his life so clearly demonstrated it.

This concept gives way to the idea that being a human, Neo obviously has a certain "advantage" over machines and programs. He can defeat other machines and programs for example. Machines and programs are based on worlds of rules, even though they can exceed those rules, they're still based on them. "I've seen an agent punch through a concrete wall. Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air. Yet their strength and their speed are still based in a world that is built on rules. Because of that, they will never be as strong or as fast as you can be." The human element gives Neo the ability to break through those rules entirely, not just bend them.

So if being human gives Neo the edge within the matrix (the world created by machines with humans in them), the idea comes to mind that being machine gives Neo the edge in the real world (the world meant for humans with machines in them). Think of the Matrix, what is its purpose (ah, there's that key word again we've all come to know and love)? It is to supply the machines with energy. Each machine is connected to the Matrix (the real world physical aspects of the Matrix, powerplants, etc) to give it its energy. Because Neo has mastered the Matrix, he could control the machines power consumption. He might overload them as well. There's a world of possibilities on could do if you could control somethings power supply!

Yeah, I know I'm probably not being as clear as I should be. I welcome any replys with questions etc to further investigate this theory. One more coming up in another post...

The problem is: While I believe one can believe in Jesus being real man and real god, this wouldn't be possible for machines. How can you be 100% software/robot AND 100% soul/flesh? Only if no humans existed at all, but mankind was only a program itself.

Moreover I think that the movies are less Christian-like as one thinks. Did Jesus go around and slapped enemies in the faces and fly away?

However I like the idea of being able to energetically overload the system

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Think of the Matrix, what is its purpose (ah, there's that key word again we've all come to know and love)? It is to supply the machines with energy.

No, it is not. If energy was the machines motive, they would find other sources, or at least lobotomize the children before they are plugged in, so they wouldn't need to use energy on running the simulation.

So the real question is why the matrix exists, not why the things that goes on inside it happen or who looks the most like Jesus.

The machine DO need some uniquely human chemical as well as their heat, Combined with a specialized form of fusion. Allegedly, the machines DO need humans for their special technology to work properly. Also, Jesus makes a cameo. In the form of a figurine on the table in Chinatown when Neo jacks back in to meet the Oracle. Jesus Did have sex with AT LEAST mary magdaline. Don't belive the Catholic hype.

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Jesus Did have sex with AT LEAST mary magdaline

Erm....you find me the verse. Dare ya.

I can find you verses in credible holy texts.
But, I can find many different verses in many different texts, saying many different, and often contradictory things.
What makes a holy book credible?
Can you answer that?
Is the King James Bible holy?
It is a perverse blasphemy as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.
Same with the snake handling sects of the Baptists. You wouldn't believe the texts they find Holiest.
The Mormons are Christian. Do you know what they believe.
Try apotheosis. They believe that the most devout are to become Gods in training in the next world, while lesser Christians will have to be taught more in heaven to reach such a level.
There are as many things to believe as there are people, and as many levels of belief inside of that. It feels good to believe in something.
It is a liberation of sorts.
I believe that all things are true.
And hey, when Mary Maggs went to heaven, you don't think she hooked up with Diamond J?
Also, "to annoint one's feet" is an ancient euphemism for sex.
Virginity isn't as holy as it is made out to be. The discipline involved in vows to God, be they chastity or silence are holy, and Jesus didn't desire nor need to make such vows.

Is it so hard to believe that Neo is programmed to think he is human. The architect told Neo that he would be reprogrammed if he entered the right door. Him waking up in "the real world" is just a simulation, since it is just another matrix. The anomally in Neo's programming is that he's capable of love, something which he was not programmed to do. When the architect tells him that he is human, he is referring to his programming code. He is a revered program, because the machines need him to guide the Zionites to false hope, so that they don't realise that Zion is another Matrix. Zion is another fail-safe matrix designed to control the minority of those who awake from the first matrix, but only their faith in the prophecy keeps them from doubting their world, disabling their ability to manipulate their world, such as high jumping.

Watch the new trailer!!
Neo definitely seems to be human, and the whole blowing up sentinels is the next level of enlightenment, and/or the ability gained by having his mind in two places at once. The Wachowskis are into psychic phenomena as much as anything, and it may well be this angle they are playing into.
However, when Smith as Bane says, "Look past the flesh...and see your enemy," Neo sees the energy form of smith as living flame. Weird but cool!

OK -this may make sense...and then again...

Neo could be both machine and human - look at what is happening in the IT field at the moment - organic computing. The idea of using living cells as a means of prrocessing...

now, think of this - its a bit of a convoluted one, so I expect to be flamed by some who don't like to think...

Have you read 2001 (and the rest, 2010, 2061, 3001)? Theres a concept in those books which is quite interesting - man find limitations with human body, discards body and puts his essence into machines, giving him less limitations than the seemingly feeble human body. Finds machines also have limitations, so he transcends machines, to live as a"god like" being - only his essence, soul or whatever you want to call it. Evolution.

So imagine the same happened here...only there is something which gives humans a power over machines - the ability to break the rules...so, the machines become human - from human to machine, to human - and Neo is the first...the One - perhaps his predecessors failed to accept the programming, and went pop, just as the first matrix was not assimilated by the humans and they went pop...so Neo is both human (ie his body is human), but his essence, or soul, is machine

Does that make sense?

Gaz wrote:

man find limitations with human body, discards body and puts his essence into machines, giving him less limitations

Yep, the grey space aliens (The Greys) which use advanced "doll" bodies.

There's a lot of contraversy and argueing about the seemingly religious significancies in the Matrix plot. A lot of religious types claim that the story is a reflection of their religion and likewise a lot of non-religious types are dismissing this out right and are getting pissed off their film is being turned into a vehicle for these different religions (seems to me like their making a religion out of it also).
I'm pretty far from being a believer in the afterlife etc... but I think the Matrix is a good movie and if someone wants to stamp their perspective on it then all the better (especially now, before REVOLUTIONS; the more theories the better to keep the ball rolling).
After all, it is only a movie, and it's better to have these contrasting (religious) perspectives flying around than what has happened in Egypt where the film has been banned on religious grounds.
Keep 'em coming...

Good point, Loki.

I sometimes see theese discussions as a competition between different philosophical and religious schools to explain the plot in a way that makes the most sense.

But as the makers of the movie find the crossing point between Buddhism and Quantum physics uniquely interesting, I guess that's where to look...

knnknn... something can be 100% one thing and 100% another if the two don't conflict

emp... it is not impossible that the machines use humans for power. Based on the premise that the body cannot live without the mind, the machines would have to keep the mind alive in order to gain energy from the humans.

wow ogami, try being more blasphemous... Can I ask you a question... do you believe the crap that spews from your mouth?

I like that theory holeavatar...

Ogami, I hope the Wachowskis aren't lame enough to have a buddhist/humanist human "enlightenment" ending...

The crossing point between Buddhism and Quantum physics is the biggest crock of crap in the universe. Have you ever read up on these supposed "theories?" They try to explain a concept process regarding the movement and position of electrons in the most vague way they can, then claim that uncertainty is a life's principle, so therefore nothing is true.

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The crossing point between Buddhism and Quantum physics is the biggest crock of crap in the universe.

So you think the Wacho Brothers are full of crap? Strange, as you seem to like the movies.

emp wrote:

Quote: The crossing point between Buddhism and Quantum physics is the biggest crock of crap in the universe. So you think the Wacho Brothers are full of crap? Strange, as you seem to like the movies.

Seems like Stinkz doesn't like any theory unless he agrees with it ~ I'd like to know how many more of us he's going to upset...

Many Christian’s fans of the matrix seem to jump on the bandwagon that Neo represents Jesus, that he was somehow 100% man and 100% God. I have heard the idea from a friend that Neo becomes the matrix or the Architect, which is similar to Man (Jesus becoming God) though Christians would claim it’s the other way round

But there are many myths that predate Jesus where someone was referred to as a "god-man." The biographies of these god-men are consistent from religion to religion. The main difference among the faiths was his name:

Alexandria: Aion
Asia Minor: Attis
Babylonia: Antiochus
Egypt: Osiris
Greece: Dionysus, Asclepius
Syria: Adonis
Italy: Bacchus
Persia: Mithras
Israel: Jesus

Again with virgin births, healings miracles etc, the god men myths had been circulating well before Jesus birth. The Christians would have copied earlier Pagan material, not vice-versa. Hence Neo not being the first one, calling the systemic anomaly a messiah concept gives the people who don’t accept the matrix hope. In the same way to Christians Jesus gives them hope offering them a new world aka heaven.

Jesus him self ultimately failed to fulfill all of the supposed messiah prophecies, this is where Christians would say he is to fulfill them on his second coming, even though this is never a concept described in the old testament.

Basically its clear Neo will fail to destroy the matrix this failing to fulfill the prophecy which is a lie in the first place or possible a half truth, then gives way to his second coming so to speak, which is basically the next systemic anomaly within the next version of the version of the matrix (Matrix 7.0). please note no I mean no offence to Christians believe stay in wonder land and believe what ever u want to believe.

I think that both machine and man seeks an end to the cycle of anomalies. If Neo is used to create a matrix where no one ever wakes up, or he is used to create a bond between man and machine, he still creates an exit from the cycle. Everything that has a beginning must have an end. Everything changes.

But I like the idea of the Matrix 7.0 where you know you are in the matrix, but must wait for your turn to get out. In the meantime you can explore your possibilities.

It's called "The Matrix Online" and is out soon.

emp... there is a difference between making an interesting movie and making real-world sense.

wow another smith... I hate to trample on your dreams... but theories need to be PROVEN. I can claim to believe that the earth's crust is held up by a layer of cheese on top of the heads of elephants, but claiming to believe it doesn't add any validity to it. I allow people to have differing opinions, right or wrong. But I'm going to respond to the person who believes nonsense and tell him why he's wrong.

wow, sword, you sure make alot of rash claims. To bad none of them are substantiated. Who is staying in wonderland? Is it the guy who believes things like... there is a God... there are moral absolutes... Or is it the guy who follows what the system teaches... there is no God... there are no absolutes... even though evidence clearly points the opposite way and the latter is a self-contradiction?

Well I admit the claims may be rash, but the matrix religious symbolisms are taken not just from Christianity but many religions and philosophies. Christianity it self borrows extensively concepts from many other religions, myths, legends.

Although that Idea cannot be explained or proved in this forum, for example why do similar stories exist in many religions involving Noah’s ark stories (for example Babylonian myths) outside of the Judaism-Christianity Scriptures?

What my suggestion was that Neo isn’t the first claimed saviours of mankind inside the matrix (possible man/machine), much like Jesus wasn’t the first claimed god/man savoir of mankind.

To end I think personally to believe there’s some all powerful god who came to earth 2000 years ago was killed by his own people and is coming back for the chosen few to ascend to heaven is ludicrous. And to many Christians they deny reality that somehow this isn’t the real world and its irrelevant or a test/training ground for the real world, which lies with the heavenly father.

sword... yes, there are many traditions from pagan cultures in our churches today, thats very observant. However, that was not true in the apostolic age. After years of persecution of the Christians in Rome, Christianity became the state religion. It was then that the church became secularized to what we now know as the Roman Catholic Church. IT started a great many traditions based on pagan religions such as the worship of Mary, infant baptism, creation of cathedrals, and much more.

The fact that there are other stories similar to the ones in the Bible coming from cultures all over the globe only adds validity to the fact that some event actually occurred. It could be expected that these stories, had they not been preserved so well in the Bible would have become distorted.

Though there are many religions who claim to have their "One" such as Mohammed... none were believed to be God and man. Even in some of these religions Jesus is thought to be just a prophet. However, with the claims Jesus makes about himself, he either was God, was lying, or was insane. There is no way he could have just been a good prophet.

If you think the story is ludicrous, try reading it first... you might change your mind.
I know what you mean about Christians who just say that this world is a test and that fossils are a test... that IS ludicrous. This is the stuff that some Christian circles teach their children in hopes that they will stay in the faith when faced with the overwhelming evolutionist mindset of people today. However, I am not one of those people who just accepts what he hears. I do not mind that some Christians believe that, for it is keeping them on the right side. However, instead of denying the real world... I accept it. The real world is one of the GREATEST proofs of the existance of God. If you can let go of the system (which has pounded into your head, "there are no absolutes," "there is no God,") you will see the obvious truth the world presents. Then, hopefully, you will go to the Bible and read passages like "the heavens declare the glory of God" and hopefully catch a glimpse of its validity.

stinkz wrote:

emp... there is a difference between making an interesting movie and making real-world sense.

Exactly. That is why this has become such an interesting movie. They have disregarded what can be seen as "making real-world sense", and have shown us a universe where anything is possible.

It is because of the brothers interest in stuff like the crossing point between Buddhism and Quantum physics that this movie has become so interesting.

"Throughout human history, dictators and totalitarian governments have learned that there is nothing more powerful than a people's yearning for freedom and dignity. While bodies may be enslaved or imprisoned, the human spirit can never be subjugated or defeated."
--Dali Lama

The Brothers have made such a cool trilogy by combining ideas from all forms of MYTHOLOGY. There have been many great spiritual leaders throughout history, in many different religions. The tale of Neo is a what-if story of a future spiritual leader.
If anyone has problems with the idea of the reconciliation of science and religion in the form of Quantum/Buddism unity, please read:
The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra or The Dancing Wu-Li Masters by Gary Zukav. These are guaranteed to increase your understanding of our dimension regardless of your higher beliefs. As in this thread, where it has been mentioned that Neo can be both man and machine, there does not have to be the side-picking of one or the other. Could not a God, through creationism, create evolution? Are they really at odds? Could not a God, create aspects of itself? Buddhism to free some minds and give them hope, Christianity for others?
The Dali Lama, one of our great spiritual leaders of today, and the Pope, another graet spiritual leader of today, love and admire each other.
They are both enlightened enough to understand whrer the other is coming from and the message of love and compassion that both of their religions are based in.
My lack of respect for the organization of Christianity(and subsequent "blasphemy") stems from the exclusionary aspect of it. Jesus being the ONLY way, and others will burn.
Buddhism is so great to me because it says that all religions are buddhism.
Everyone has their own path.
To me, we are all the children of God, and have the gift of life.
Live in the moment and you will understand why you are here, and you will know God.
May the force be with you, always.

"It is not enough to understand the world outside.
It is not enough to understand the world inside.
But, it is more than enough to understand that they are the same."
--Guatama Buddha

No matter what you believe, it's still just your brain trying to deal with the fact that there is no reason, purpose, meaning, or whatever.

It is only when realizing this you understand that if you would ever find "enlightenment" or "Jesus" or "Allah", it is just another way of fooling yourself to believe that there is something more to life than just existence.

I envy those who manages to fool themself into believing some lame reason for us being here. I wish I could.

Ogami, you summed it up well. The only reason you dislike Christianity is because it is the only religion which hasn't accepted the ridiculous hype that everything is the same. If there is a God, he is not a God of contradiction, or else why would he instil logic in his subjects? Whats more, Christianity is the only religion which stands on moral absolutism, something without which there would be total anarchy/chaos. In todays society we are trying to rid the absolute element from the law, creating our own absolutes from our own personal experiences. However, this is destined to fail. Sure we can all agree that murder is wrong because it is so signifigantly terrible and discouraged that not many people do it. But what about other wrongs? What about about when there is disagreement. There can never be agreement. Once you do something you know is wrong, you have defiled your conscience and are now more prone to do it again. Now you rationalize the wrong in your head until you no longer see it as wrong. The same thing happens to mass murderers. Are we supposed to allow murderers to run rampant just because they do not "feel" that what they are doing is wrong anymore? No. We stand on one of the most obvious absolutes... that murder is wrong. This can be found in commandment 6, which has been taken out of courthouses all over the nation.

emp, why would a randomly formed brain have to deal with purpose at all? Anyone who really is honest with himself knows that there is more to life than just existance. You claim all others are "foolish" for believing in something which is so blatantly evident. We ARE here for a reason. Why else does everyone long to have such purpose if we weren't designed to have one?

emp:
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